Bijou is a drag artist based in Cologne, Germany whose performances are inspired by the showgirls of the 1920s and 1930s. Bijou views drag as an artform that is tearing apart gender constructs, allowing drag artists to discover and present their authentic selves.
Interview with Bijou, February 13, 2021
To cite this particular interview, please use the following:
Masching, Heidi. 2021. Interview with Bijou. Sociology of Drag, SIUE, February 13. Available URL (https://ezratemko.com/drag/bijou/).
Heidi: When did you first hear about drag, and what was your initial reaction to it?
Bijou: Um, the first time I heard about drag was, I think, kind of, similar to a lot of people from my generation, through RuPaul’s Drag Race. Um, I always had, like, a lot of… like, a big love for everything, um, that had to do with, like, makeup and fashion and, kind of, like, styling and creating. And I always tried to find, um, a medium, in which I can combine everything. And, um, when I saw Drag Race for the first time I was like, “Duh, like, that makes sense.” And I, uh, kind of, got into the idea of starting it, but I was, like, way too young back then. Like, I was, I don’t know, like, 15, 16 when, like… when I saw the first season. So, like, I was way too young to, like, even think about doing it. And, like, the older I got and, like, the more I really got also professionally into, like, doing makeup and doing… um, creating, like, looks and outfits, um, I was like, “Okay, now is the time to, like, actually start doing it.”
So, I started doing it in 2019, in, like, February 2019, and, um, that was, kind of, like, the start of my drag career, if you will. And, um, I just got into it by, like, trying to look for a medium, I can combine everything, then seeing that drag, like, exists, because we don’t really have a lot of drag queens in Germany. At least, I didn’t know a lot when I was younger. We had, like, two very, like, famous drag queens, kind of, but they did not represent a kind of art that I would want to make, because they, kind of, decided to be like the butt of a joke, in a sense, which I never would like to be because I, kind of, like, take what I do very, very seriously. Um, so when I saw that there are other performers or other artists, like, just, that, like, represent something that I would like to make… especially when I saw Violet Chachki for the first time, realizing that, kind of, the vintage aesthetic and something more classical is also combinable with doing drag, that was when I really got into the idea of actually doing it.
Heidi: So, when you got into it in 2019, was that when you started performing as a drag artist, or…?
Bijou: Yeah. So, I… beforehand, I, like, tried out stuff. I got, like, my first wig styled, I tried out a lot of different makeup looks, I tried to, like, perfect a lot of things, I got, um, a cos– a costume made. And then, in… I’m thinking on the 2nd of February, 2019, I performed at the party of a friend. He was like, “If you really want to try out if you’re good at this, do it somewhere where you’re surrounded with friends and people you know, because even if you fuck up, they wi– they will just laugh about it and it’s okay.” And, um, that’s what I did. And, like, in that specific moment I knew, “Okay, like, I might have started something that I cannot stop anytime soon,” [laughing] and, um, that’s when I, like, really started performing. And then, I sent out applications for, um, performances, and, um, I got some small ones at, like, smaller parties. Then I got my first big, um, performance. I was booked for my first big performance in front of, like, I think 600 people, uh, yeah, which was like, “Oh shit.”
Heidi: [Laughs]
Bijou: And, um, at a vintage party here where I live in Cologne. And, um, that was when I, like, really knew, “Okay, like, I wanna do this, like, big time, like, in front of bigger audiences and, like, really come up with performances that people will be left with, kind of, like, a feeling of, oh, that was great.”
Heidi: So, how did your family, friends, and, um, other loved ones receive you becoming a drag artist?
Bijou: I’m very lucky and I’m very privileged in the sense that I always grew up in an environment that, like, always took me exactly as I am. Um, I am very… I always was very extroverted, and I was always someone that, like, loved to create. Um, so, like, going into arts, and going into doing makeup, and going into, um… like, having a huge interest for fashion, like, that, kind of, for most of the people surrounding me was not a huge surprise. When I came out as gay, like, that was also, like, fully okay for everyone. I think there was literally no one in my closest surrounding that I also care about, um, that had an issue with it. Um, especially my parents, like, got very protective over me, being like, “We fully support you, and we want to make sure that you’re always good. Like, if there’s somebody who makes… like, gives you a hard time, always tell us, and we will find a way to, like, get rid of any problems.” Um, that sounded very wrong [laughing], not get rid of any problems but [inaudible].
Heidi: [Laughs] No.
Bijou: Like, you know, going with me to that person and being like, “Okay, like, that’s not okay.” Um, I think my mom, when I told her I was doing drag, she just was very afraid of society judging me in a way that is not fair to me, um, because she knows that there’s still a lot of people, especially in Germany, because there is not a real drag scene, or, like, not a huge drag scene where everybody, kind of, knows it exists, and people are used to seeing it, um, that I will be judged heavily, especially in my day job. Um, so she was kind of, like, just a little bit, “Oh, oh okay.” My dad was fully fine with it. He was like, “Do whatever you want to do.” Um, he was like, “If I have to drive you anywhere, tell me. If you need props that I can, like, build you or anything, like, tell me.” And my mom just been like, very… in the beginning, just, kind of, like, a little bit anxious, like, how will people receive it? Um, also, she was just very interested in seeing how I do drag. So, at the beginning, she was, like, very observant of, like, what I’m doing. And after some time, when she saw what I’m doing, and when she saw, like, what my, kind of, style is, she immediately was hooked on it, and now she’s like one of my biggest fans.
And same with friends, like, everybody was just like, “That makes fully sense that you do this.” [Laughing] They were like, “That makes sense. Okay, I mean, yeah.” And now, they’re like, my best friend is my assistant. She drives with me anywhere, like, everywhere where I could need some assistance, she’s with me. And, um, my first big performance that I told you about, I had at least, like, 10, I think 10 or 12 of my very close friends in the audience. They all bought a ticket to the party. And some of them I didn’t even know that they did. So, I got on stage and I… they, like, literally started like, “Whoo!”, and I was, like, looking in the corner, be like, “Wh-where are you coming from?” [Laughs]
Heidi: [Laughs]
Bijou: And like, it just made me feel so at home, in a sense. I was immediately less nervous because I knew that, like… and I could also focus on them a lot.
Heidi: Yeah.
Bijou: Like, I was looking over the audience, but I could focus on their corner a little bit more, so that, like, really calmed me down. So, like, everybody is, like, receiving it very well. In my day job, I work in public administration, as a day job, which is definitely more conservative, but even there, like, some people just, like… I mean, some people find it a little bit awkward, but they would never, like, tell me. They’re like, “Yeah, that’s not for me, like, I don’t wanna talk to you about this.” I’m just like, “That’s fully fine, like, you don’t have to. Like, I don’t care for some of your hobbies that you have as well… [Laughs]
Heidi: [Laughs]
Bijou: So, that’s fine. Um, but it was also surprisingly well received, especially because I work for the administration of police. And I was like, that could become an issue,
Heidi: [Laughs]
Bijou: But, um, they’ve been like, “If you’re ever, like, on posters, or if you’re ever, like, on billboards, in Cologne, like, if you’re at a party, just tell us beforehand. So, if there are any questions coming up, we just know what you’re doing.” Um, but they’re always fully fine. Like, there… if there’s something that is a little bit more… like, I once worked at a, like, you could say like fetish party, but as, like, an organization not actually as an artist. So, I told them that this is happening, and they were like, “Yeah, well, it’s okay, like, just don’t tell everybody here that you do this…”
Heidi: [Laughs]
Bijou: “But it’s gonna be fine.” So, like, also there I was surprised that it was received very well.
Heidi: That’s great.
Bijou: Yeah.
Heidi: Um, so what is your drag name, and where does it come from?
Bijou: So, my drag name is Bijou, um, my actual name is Nick, and, um, when I was thinking about, like, my drag name I was, like, okay, if… I knew I don’t want to have a last name, because I always loved artists who only have a first name. I think that’s kind of, like… makes it even more mysterious to just know one name, and there’s not like a full-on name there. Um, I also find it a little bit like witness protection program to, like, have a first and last name as an artist.
Heidi: [Laughs].
Bijou: I always loved, like, Madonna and Cher just being like, “We have one name, that’s it.” Um, so I was thinking about like, how do I… how would I describe the character I’m going for? I knew I wanted to be, kind of, like, a little bit androgynous in a way of, like, body shape. I don’t really pad, I don’t wear boobs, um, I corset from time to time if it fits to a certain look, but I, kind of, like my more androgynous, like, very slender body, than with, like, a full on, like, makeup and hair. Um, it also fits to, like, the eras that I like, the [inaudible] 20s and 30s because that was, kind of, like, the body shape that was very, like, on vogue, you could say, in that time. Um, so I knew I wanted a little bit androgynous, I wanted to be, kind of, classic, show girl, but at the same time with modern twist. So, I didn’t want to be “Miss” something. I was like, “Okay, let’s do something that is, like, a little bit more modern, but at the same time gives the vibe of I am someone who, like, dresses and is interested in, like, vintage and vintage showgirls.
Um, I also knew that I wanted it to be French, so, like, some kind of, like, French twist to it, because I really love, like, the 20s and 30s and Paris and the showgirls from Paris, Moulin Rouge. Um, and then I, like, wrote down, um, how would I describe my character? And I came up with, like, one sentence that, “I am the jewel of the Parisian night life.” And I was, like, stuck to the jewel, and I was… because I had French in school, I was like, “Wait, the French word for jewel is bijou,” and then I was like, “That’s it.” Then, I, like… I wrote a couple of my friends and been like, “What do you think about Bijou?” And they were like, “For what?” “My drag name.” They were like, “That’s dope,” and I was like, “Okay, we’re settled.”
Heidi: [Laughs]
Bijou: I sent it to the… I attached it to the first application, and I was like, “Okay, now it’s official, like, we did this.” And I like it because it is, kind of, androgynous, it could be a guy, it could be a girl, it’s short. Most people are… it’s easy to remember. Um, so yeah, I stuck with that name up until now.
Heidi: Do you think that, um, the type of drag that you do… like, you were describing your 1920s type of style, do you think that that affects your life as a drag artist?
Bijou: It does. Um, I am more limited to, um, certain environments and certain performances I can do. I can do modern. Like, I did a couple of gigs for sure, like in these typical, like, leotards, like, the sequined leotards, kind of, numbers, which I also enjoy from time to time. I love when someone literally asks, like, “We know you do this, but could you do something more modern, something more, like, loud and energetic?” I’m like, “Sure.” Um, but I always had, kind of, like, a [inaudible] for it, like, the classic, like, burlesque, and cabaret. Um, and I knew I want to mainly do this. It also fits more to, like, how I am presenting myself as a drag artist and, kind of, like, the personality I have in drag. Um, but I [inaudible] immediately, like, got to know, it’s like, “Okay, you cannot apply for certain, in fet… like, parties or something like that with your style because it just does not fit into the environment.
So, I mainly work at, like, cabaret shows and burlesque, um, shows and burlesque festivals, um, which is great, and which I absolutely love. I think especially the burlesque, um, community is one of the most, like, inviting, warm, supportive, environments or, like, communities that you can find. Um, but it’s limited because we don’t really have a lot of that. I think the burlesque scene in general is fairly small, and especially in Germany, for some reason. So, I have to travel a lot. Like, in Cologne, I rarely find jobs. I travel a lot to Berlin or to Hamburg, um, Germany which, um, just has more of a, like, variety of drag artists and, like, more of, um, opportunities to work in, kind of, like, the room that I work in.
So, I know it limits me to opportunities, but at the same time, I, kind of, think that’s also a blessing, because I don’t… if you do a lot, and if you go to a lot of, like, parties and a lot of opportunities, um, people get sick of you quicker. They’ll be like, “Okay, we’ve seen you here and here and here, like, we need someone new.” Um, but at the same time, it’s also like I’m… immediately I get more, um… ah, like, now I’m looking for the English word, um, more picky you can say, more picky with where I perform, and I think that also, like, keeps up my quality. So, it’s a curse and a blessing, sometimes, but, um, I love it, and I will not stop doing it. and I, kind of, like, really found my home in this style. So, I’m okay with having less opportunities. I mean, as of right now, obviously, nothing’s happening. [Laughs]
Heidi: Yeah.
Bijou: We’re currently in another lockdown in Germany, so, um, that’s that. Um, I have… the last performance I had was in October 2020, and before that, like, it was a whole year…
Heidi: Oh wow.
Bijou: That I had nothing. I’m doing a lot of photo shoots now because that’s possible to do, but, like, performances is, like, done for now. Um, but, like, that’s what I’m realizing that happens, but at the same time, that’s not that big of an issue for me.
Heidi: So, there are a lot of terms for types and styles of drag, from drag king to drag queen, and among others. Um, what label would you use to describe your drag?
Bijou: Um, I think drag queen is, kind of, like… I know it’s, like, the general word for it, but I think with the term of drag queen, you immediately have a certain picture in mind how that person looks like, what kind of things this person does. Um, I see a lot of people, especially, like, for example, Violet, or, um, Sasha Velour, or the winner of Season 9 of RuPaul’s Drag race, that they, kind of, um, went away from the term drag queen to drag artist, because they realized the… the picture that people have when they hear drag queen is not what I represent. Um, so I also, always, in applications or anything, I always put, “I’m a drag artist,” so I’m… It’s mainly because, like, with drag queens, a lot of times, um, they also create, like, a complete new persona, like, visually, they’re completely different, very over the top, huge hair, crazy performances.
And for me, it’s, kind of, like, I almost stick to h– I almost stick to, kind of, like, how I look like out of drag, with, like, black hair and black, thicker eyebrows. And it’s mainly like I’ve feminized my outer appearance to have more opportunity to work artistically. It’s not to, like, completely get rid of, like, who I am in that moment. Um, so I always say, “I’m an artist who uses the art form of drag or specific, um, elements of drag to make more art happen for me.” So, that’s… hence why I’m always saying, “I’m a drag artist,” but I also… I’m fully fine with people just calling me a normal artist or a performer or a burlesque performer. Um, I just started modeling for an agency, and they just have “Bijou” and just “model.” They don’t even mention that I’m a drag artist. They, obviously, mention that I’m a guy, [inaudible] they have to. Um, but I am not very into labels. I just do what I do, and if someone wants a label, I just say, “I’m a drag artist, I’m…” or, like, “I’m an artist who uses drag to, like, make, um, their art happen.”
But, um, I also, kind of, found myself going away from the term drag queen. Because I also think that they are, like, drag queens, like, who do drag the way we think of drag, that they should have their bubble. Because what they do is, like, still so different from what I’m doing and from what other artists like me do, that I want them to have their platform, that people know what they get when they book them. And people like me just kind of been like, “Okay, well, let them do their thing, let them have the term drag queen, so everybody immediately knows what they’re doing. And we, kind of, like, go in the room of drag but use a more general term to describe what we are doing.
Heidi: Who or what has influenced your drag?
Bijou: Um, I think a huge influence on my drag, first of all, I think, like, other drag queens. Obviously, it’s easy to find inspiration in other drag queens or in other drag artists in general. Like, some of my biggest inspirations when it comes to drag is Violet Chachki, which, um, I was very blessed to be able to meet her, kind of, right when I started drag at a meet and greet. And she, like, really took time, so you had, like, two, three minutes to, like, actually talk to her. So, I, like, asked her, like, two questions that I was always, like, very interested in. And she, kind of, like, told me, um, “I don’t see, really, flaws, but if you wanna, like, have, um, any tips, you can do this and this and this,” like, because we are very similar in what we’re doing, um, which was very great.
I am heavily inspired by Sasha Velour, kind of, like, just her mind is, like, so out of this world. So, I like to see what she’s doing and, kind of, think, like, “How can I take inspiration from this and put it into my kind of drag?” Um, but also, I think, like, actual women, Dita Von Teese is a huge inspiration, but also Lady Gaga, um, old, like, Hollywood, um, showgirls or actresses, Rita Hayworth, um, and, um, classic, like, burlesque performers from, like, the time of the 20s to, like, the 40s. Um, I think also a huge inspiration is, like, pop culture in general, and fashion. Like, I always loved fashion designers a lot. So, um, even for, like, my costumes that I make for performances, I sometimes love to go to certain designers I love, like McQueen, um, Jean Paul Gaultier, Mugler, [inaudible] and just see what they have done in their body of work and just take certain elements and put them into what I’m doing. So, I think I, kind of, get my inspiration from everywhere, um, but I have a very clear eye for what I like and what I scan. ‘Cause I can watch certain things or see certain things and be like, “Yeah, that’s nice, that’s nice,” but I always stop at a certain point when I see this is something that I’m more interested in. So, like, that’s, kind of, like, where I get most of my inspiration for what I’m doing.
Heidi: Um, do you consider your drag political?
Bijou: I think drag is always political. I think there’s no way of being someone who does not fit into the heteronormative, cisgendered society and not say that you’re not political. Because our poli– like, politics and everything that’s happening in governments, no matter where, is always heavily based and most influenced by heteronormative, um, like, ideas and cisgender ideas and, like, the identity of people like that. Um, so, I think, every time you step out of your house and don’t fully try to fit into the norm that we have, it’s always political. ‘Cause you’re always… even if you don’t want to, kind of, work for progress. Because progress always… like, if a political progress… progress always starts in society itself.
I can see it in Germany a lot, we have a very range… like, our government is mainly based on a very conservative, um, party, um, they are fully fine. Like, we have… we’re also very privileged in Germany to have a lot of, like, um, a lot of rights. We have, um, the right to marry whoever we want. We, um, are very supported and secured by law. But at the same time, you can tell that, like, there are certain things that they just don’t want to change. Um, we cannot donate blood, as an example, um, still not allowed in Germany. And I think, because our society is still also very conservative, and have a special, like, older generation that is still heavily conservative, this will not change because they will still vote for this party up until the point where, like, I don’t know what they have to do to, like… for people to be like, “Oh, we’re not gonna vote for them anymore.” Um, with COVID as an example, they’re really fucking up a lot of stuff right now in Germany, unfortunately. We’re in month five of lockdown again. Um, like, the vaccination is so damn slow, like, we have no vaccines, like, everything is, like, so crazy, and nothing is organized. And now is the first time that people are like “Oh, maybe we’re not that great.” But they still will be voted because it still fits to society.
And, by just being different and being out of the norm, you open eyes of the people in our society a lot. And by opening just a couple of eyes, they will also go to other people and be like, “Oh, I met that person. Like, that’s totally cool. Look at this, look at that.” And society starts changing in itself. And then politics change, because then the first time the society will be like, “Are the people in government who are currently representing us really representing the society we live in?” No, not anymore. So, they make a change. That’s why certain parties, um, especially parties who are heavily involved in climate, um, change and saving our planet get more and more popular in Germany because the minds of the people change, and they’re realizing it’s not all about money and not all about, like, big corporations, it’s also about smaller people, about people who are more, like, on the, like, room of being, like, poor and having nothing.
And, um, so, like, by being us and getting out there and doing what we do, and especially drag, because especially drag fucks with, like, society norms so much. It’s… for some people, it’s almost, like, not understandable how I can give up my privilege as a man to be feminine, because I know how feminine individuals are treated in our society. So, like, for them it’s, like, totally crazy, and it’s like… it completely shakes up their whole idea of feminine and masculine. ‘Cause sometimes I had people looking at me from afar being like, “That’s a woman.” Then I come close, and they’re like, “Oh, that’s a man.” They’re like. “What’s going on?” So, they realize that, like, gender and especially, like, the appearance of a certain gender is just a full-on social construct that has nothing to do with how it can work and what’s actually possible.
So, I know that there are a lot of drag queens who say, “Oh I would never like to be political.” But, like, you are. Like, there’s no other choice. I would never, like, say that I am heavily in politics. Like, I’m not in a party, I’m not, like, going to, like, huge rallies for certain parties. Um, but I know that just by being me I can make a change, in a sense, or can open some eyes. And I know that this is happening. ‘Cause even at work when I see, like, people who never were in touch with it, or, like, even friends and family who never were in touch with it, and now they see what I’m doing, and they looked up into drag. And now they have a complete different mindset on it.
I know that this changes a lot of the perspective of people, and with that, over time… it will be a long process, for sure. We’ve come a long way, but it will at least be, like, another 30, 40, 50 years for huge change to happen because, first of all, a certain generation, even if it sounds very crazy, has to die. Like, the generation that will never ever understand, that it will never look past what they know, which, sadly, is, kind of, like, a generation of, like, my grandparents. Although they are very open to everything I do. But I know that there are a lot of people in the generation that will never look past what they… like, the status quo of, like, the 40s, 50s. Um, so, like, a certain generation has to die, and then, like, our generation, or the past… or, like, the generation of our parents have to become the older generation, like, the generation that my grandparents are now, to, kind of, like, be more open. And, like, my generation has to become the age of them, of the generation of my parents, to, like, really make things happen. Because, unfortunately, it’s the generation between, like, 40 and 50 who really make change happen the most, um, because they, A, get taken more seriously in our society, but they also have just more options to, like, be out there in comparison to people my age. We’re not really taken seriously, we don’t have, like, the funds to do certain things, we don’t have to… we don’t have the voice right now to do certain things.
So, it will be a lot of progress, but I think what we’re doing right now and, like, even, like, having Drag Race on TV or having, um, like, more and more people like me involved in more mainstream media, it will change something, and over time, I think it will change society and politics a lot.
Heidi: So, can you talk about what your life is like as a drag artist? Um, like, are you part of a drag family, house, or collective?
Bijou: Mm-hmm. Um, it’s… I think in my normal day-to-day life you cannot really even tell. I think even if you come into my apartment, like, I have a separate closet where everything is in. So… but, I need to… kind of, need this at the same time, because if I would be surrounded with my art the whole time, I, first, would never stop working on certain things and would overdo stuff. But also, I, kind of, like the clear division of my normal life to the more… obviously, more crazy and, like, more… sometimes even like more stressful life of an artist. Um, so, if you come to my apartment, or if you’re, like, meeting me for the first time, you wouldn’t, like, really know. Um, I’m also not someone who, like, is at the first sentence, like, “Oh, I’m a drag artist as well.” So, it’s, like, very low key in my day-to-day life.
Um, if I get in drag or if I’m, like, in the process of creating things if I’m at jobs, I’m always very, like… I would say, I am extrovert for everyone around me, but I’m more an introvert in the surrounding of other artists, ’cause I’m always very focused on what I’m doing, and, um, I’m, unfortunately, a crazy perfectionist, so I always look at everything and be like, “Is everything fine? Is everything good?”
Um, as of, like, being in a drag family, no. Um, that’s not that big of a thing in Germany. I know we have like a couple of drag houses, um, but they also don’t have, like, a clear, like, mother, like, house mother and then, like, children. They just came together… they’re more like a collective, in a sense. They came together because they have a similar aesthetic. But that’s not a huge thing in Germany to have, like, houses or huge collectives. Um, we definitely are in touch, so, like, if we get to meet each other, we stay in touch, if we can then borrow something from someone, we use connections that another drag artists has for us, um, and vice versa, obviously. And, um, that’s, kind of, like, how drag and how drag things work in Germany. We, kind of, like, share connections, share ideas, ask someone, ask like, “Do you think this is cool?”
Um, as of for me personally, because I am way more in the cabaret/burlesque community, um, that’s what I would call my community and my home, in a sense. Um, we are a huge community, so we, like, stay in touch through, like, certain Facebook groups or, like, group chats. Um, so that’s, kind of, like, how I am positioned, in a sense. But I work mainly alone. So, like, my performances are alone, like, how I come up with things most of the time is I’m doing it alone. Um, or I do it on my own, I think alone isn’t the right word, I’m doing it on my own, and always with knowing that I can ask certain people for opinions or ideas. Um, but I’m not part of a house, we’re not like, you know, like… I don’t know, huge dynasties like you have in, like, America where you have, like, huge, like, houses, where you have a house mother, and then you have, like, all the children. Like, that is not really happening in Germany.
Heidi: So, I know things are different, with, um, you mentioned the lockdown and your ability to perform. But, I guess… well, you could talk about prior to and now, but how often do you perform, and where do you perform?
Bijou: Um, because I am working full time during the week, um, most of the time on the weekends, if there is… if there was something that I really wanted to do, where I was like, “I really want to take this opportunity,” I took time off from my normal day job, um, which they are fine with. Like, if you are still able to do your normal work while you’re here, like, we don’t care if you take one or two days off to go somewhere and work in your art. They’re fully fine with that.
Um, so most of my performances are on weekends, sometimes on, like… if it’s on a Friday, I do a half day on Friday and then, like, drive to the performance. Um, so I think in 2019 I had… I just started, but at the same time, I think I had, like, 18– around 20 performances. So, most of the time, I have at least one a month. Um, in the beginning of 2020, I had, from January to March, up until the point where it was forbidden to perform, I had, I think 10, and, like, two at the end of 2020. And then we got into another lockdown, so, like, I, kind of, like, had nothing for, like, um, first of November up until now. It will stay like that for a long time.
We, kind of, asked… or, like, artists asked, like, “When is the first time you could see performances happening again?” They’ve been, like, if the vaccination, kind of, like, works out better, and if, like, the cases stay down, they say, like, late summer. So, we probably… like, my first performance will be the one that I am still currently booked for on the first of September. Let’s see if that works. But, um, I’m not doing it full time. It’s mainly when I have the time I do it, and I’m also very picky with what I want to do. So, I don’t take everything that comes in. Um, but it’s enough. It’s fully enough for me. Because I think, if I would do it too much, I would… It would lose that feeling of something special for me. Um, so I think the things that I do are for me currently fully enough. And, um, it’s at least, like, once a month there’s something going on that I can then a whole month have… have a whole month to prepare for it, which is also what I love, just, like, the whole process of preparing things, creating performances. Um, so I know that there are artists who do, like, every night, and then there… in Germany, and then there are artists who, like, appear at some points and do something, and then they go back to their normal life.
Heidi: What goes into getting ready for a performance?
Bijou: Uh, seven pounds of makeup! [Laughs]. Um, most of the time for me it’s, like, I hear a certain song, or I have a certain idea for a costume, or I have a certain idea for movements I want to incorporate. Then I sit down and I, um, like, just take everything I have as of right now, like together for a certain number. And most of the time it starts with, like, choreography, basic choreography. I know how the costume has to be, what kind of special, like, knickknacks the costume has to have. Um, then I know when… I know what the costume’s gonna be like, what hair am I gonna wear with it, what accessories.
So, most of the time it starts with, I have an idea… somewhat idea, for a performance. I sit down, take… either I already have the song or I look for a song, then I look for a choreography, then costume, and then, like, the little fine details. And then, right before a performance, it’s a lot of just practicing, um, because I would never feel comfortable going on stage and only having practiced that performance like two or three times. So, I practice it a lot. Most of the time, I film it and send it to, like, people I know always give an honest opinion about it. And, um, if I feel ready and comfortable with a certain new performance and a certain new number, then I, like… either if I’m booked for something, I take it, or, like, I apply for something with that certain number.
And then, right before the performance, I don’t think about it a lot anymore. Like, if I’m in makeup, and I’m just waiting to get on stage, the last thing I think about is the performance itself. Like, sometimes I think about what am I gonna eat afterwards, or, like, what I’m gonna… so, like, to get my mind off of thinking too much about what I’m gonna do in five minutes. Um, so that works out very well for me. I’m still get, like… I still get very anxious, and I think that’s a good thing if you still get very anxious before going on stage because it shows that you still care to be at your best. Um, so most of the time it’s, like, a lot of preparation, a lot of finding confidence and feeling comfortable in this number, and then, when you have to do it, just do it.
Heidi: What are the biggest challenges to doing drag and being a drag artist?
Bijou: I think there are certain, um… I think, first of all, like, if you look at how we are viewed, um, I think in society, as I already said, it’s like… it can be an issue, um, because sometimes you cannot talk openly about what you do because you know that, like, it could get you into trouble, or, like, have a negative, um… like, a negative effect on, maybe, your day job or maybe, like, certain relationships you have. So, that’s always a struggle.
Um, it’s expensive, I think drag is very expensive. It’s not an art that you can just do with a couple of dimes. If you really wanna do it professionally, and if you really wanna come across as a professional, it will be expensive. Most of the costumes have to be made to, like, really fit you, um, wigs are expensive, makeup is expensive. You, at least, I always say, at least throw, like, 20-30 bucks away every time you just get into drag because, um, you use certain things, and you have to throw away certain things that you wore because you cannot be able to wear them. And that’s always, kind of, like, also an issue in the beginning when you don’t really have money to, like, really get into it.
Um, drag is hard on your body sometimes because we don’t really have an option to just get on stage, in, like, for example, flats and just something. Like, we always have to, like, make this appearance, make the, like, vision happen. We have to, most the time, wear high heels and corset and wear padding or whatever. And wigs get heavy on your head, and everything is very tight. So, that’s also… can be an issue if you’re in a surrounding where it’s like, oh, you have this one performance at that time, and five hours later, you have the next performance. You’re like, “Oh my god, how am I gonna survive that?” Whereas like other artists can just be, like, taking the shoes off, getting somewhere, whatever.
Um, I think what also makes drag very difficult is finding, um, a way to divide yourself from your drag character. Because if you get too much into your drag character, um, things can pop up in your mind of like, “Am I trans?”, um, “What does it mean for my gender identity?” Like, if you’re in drag too much, kinda, like, your personality as a drag queen and your own personality can, like, mix up in a way that is… can be difficult for, like, still knowing who you are and finding yourself in, like, later years.
Um, and I think also what makes drag sometimes very difficult is finding job opportunities. Because I think people have a ve– there are drag queens out there who have done some damage on reputation, um, because there are a lot of drag queens… especially in Germany, because there are a lot of drag queens who don’t perform. They just go into clubs, they get drunk, they are very bitchy and very mean to people, but these are the kind of people who do drag to finally feel confident, and then they think they have to put other people… or they have the power to put other people down. So, like, the reputation for drag artists in Germany is a little bit difficult sometimes. I think when… I hear that a lot when people meet me for the first time, they go, “I would have never actually, like, booked a drag artist, but I saw you, and I was like, yeah, why not? Let’s try it out. And now I know there are other drag artists that are actually professional and nice.” And I was like, it’s sad that this is the picture that people go into meeting a drag artist in Germany, instead of being like, “Oh, what a cool artist” and like, “Let’s see what they do,” they’re, like, “Oh, that can be difficult, that person can be difficult.”
So, it is difficult to get job opportunities, because I actually like to call for certain applications. And like, “Oh, I just sent you mail, but I also wanted to, like, quickly say who I am on phone.” So, they talk to me for the first time, and then, like, immediately have a different picture of me as of just seeing that I’m a drag artist and being like, “Oh no, I don’t want that at one of my venues” or something like that. That person will just get drunk and be messy.” And, um, so it is a bit more difficult to find actual professional connections ’cause there’s a certain picture that people have of us.
Heidi: Is there anything unique to the drag scene where you live in Germany compared to other places in the country or the world?
Bijou: Can you repeat the question?
Heidi: Yeah. Is there anything unique to the drag scene where you live compared to other places in the country or world?
Bijou: I wouldn’t say so that much, because I think German drag is so heavily influenced by drag from other countries. So, I think that we are such a mash up of different styles of drag from all over the world. I think for a long time, drag in Germany has been extremely influenced by American drag. Um, we have a lot of these, like, very classic, almost, like, pageant girls, although there are no real pageants in Germany, but their aesthetic and the way they perform and carry themselves is very much like these, like, huge pageant drag queens from, like, um, Dallas, or something like… something around that room.
Um, and then, like, later, a lot of, like… the drag from the UK, especially London, came over, like, this more, um, punk, party girl, is, kind of, like, you know, going in and [inaudible], and then it’s go-go, like go-go girls started happening which also came a lot from the UK. Um, I now see a lot of, um, inspiration in German drag from Asia. Um, so, like, the style that they have in Asia, and, um, a lot from, like, um, scenes like New York, like, this club kid scene in New York. Um, but I think there’s not necessarily something extremely unique, um, because we’re such a mash up of everything that we see, because we don’t really have references. So that’s what… so, we have to take reference and have to take inspiration from all over the world to, like, make something happen in Germany.
Um, I think a huge difference is that, um, we are so much less in our country. So, every performer gets unique, in a sense, of being, like, there are not a lot of people like that in Germany. Um, and I think what… I think one thing that is unique is we are not very connected in collectives, but we’re stick up for each other a lot, and we’re always trying to make sure that, um, other drag queens get a fair chance for a job. People did that for me, and I did it numerous times. I was like, “Oh, you booked me, do you, maybe, need another performer?” Because I know that that person… So, that’s what we do a lot.
Where in America, you have a lot of competition, because there’s so many, they have to be way more, um, competitive, way more, like, in a sense of putting themselves so much out there, um, to get jobs and, um, no one, like, blends in too much into, like, all these drag artists. And I think that in Germany where we have the privilege to get jobs, but at the same time, we don’t have to fight for jobs so much, and even can get other people jobs, which is not happening that much in America. You have a lot of queens who are responsible for shows and for collectives in America, and they get people in. But just a normal working drag queen, most of the time, will not be like, “Oh, I’ve got to take you and you [inaudible] is mine. And in Germany difference is we are very much, in a sense, supporting each other, although we’re not that heavily connected.
Heidi: How has drag impacted or changed you?
Bijou: I think how it changed me is, like, I always was, kind of, extraverted, but at the same time, I think, this… before I did drag, um, people always told me I come off as very confident, which I was not. Like, there was a long period of… in my… especially, like, in my later teenage years from, like, 16 to almost, like, 20 where I felt very insecure about my body because I am very slender. I felt very insecure about my place in our society and my place in this world. I didn’t know what to do with myself. I started working in public administration, but I got very tired of it because I had no, like, outlet for everything else that was going on inside of me.
Um, so I think drag, in a sense, gave me a certain kind of confidence to accept a lot of myself. Now that I’m doing drag, I see my body in art, or, like, I can create art with my body. I’m like, “Okay, your body is fully fine and fully great” and gave me a lot of confidence, and that made me feel way more comfortable in my body and the way I look. I always, um, looked a lot younger and a lot more feminine than other guys my age, but now it’s also a huge plus for what I’m doing.
Um, and also, I realized what I can do with my face, with my appearance is great. So, I’m… it gave me a lot of confidence in the person that I am. It also changed me because I am way more balanced, and I’m way more balanced out in, like, how I live my life because I now have something that secures my existence, in a sense, like, my day job, and then I have something that, like, secures my mental stability, because I can create and I can do what I love.
Um, and it also changed my perspective of society because I always thought that I cannot change something. I think, especially as someone out of our community, we sometimes feel we cannot really change something. There’s so many people who live in this norm, um, that we will never be able to actually break it. And by doing drag, I just realized that just because I appear somewhere, it changes. I was like, “Oh my god, you can make change.” So, that also made me… it made me feel, like, more valid, that, like, my existence is more valid, in the sense of, like, I’m just… I’m not just, like, breathing, sitting here, but I can make change.
Um, and it also opened my eyes for… because I, unfortunately, was also someone who felt very… not weirded out, but uncomfortable around people who don’t fit the norm, um, especially gender-wise. But it was mostly because I didn’t know how to comprehend what I was feeling, so seeing that made me feel uncomfortable in myself, and then, kind of, made me go away from these people. And now I’m friends with so many people who are nonbinary, um, are fluid with their look, um, are trans, because I feel more comfortable around them because, first of all, I can now understand them a lot better. But I also don’t have this barrier inside of me anymore, so I automatically was able to let down the barrier outside of me for people like that.
Heidi: How do you identify in terms of your sex, gender identity, and gender expression outside of drag?
Bijou: Um, outside of drag, I identify as a cisgender man. Um, I don’t have body dysphoria, so I don’t look into the mirror thinking that this person is not… that the person I’m seeing is not the person I should look like or be. So, I do identify as cisgender. I always describe it as, I am just very androgynous. So, like, if you put certain things on me, or if I style myself a certain way, the, kind of, like, lines of gender, kind of, like, get a [inaudible] where they’re blurry. Um, I, kind of, see gender and gender identity, everything on a spectrum. So, if you have very male and very female, I’m kind of floating in the middle with a little bit more to male. Um, but it’s, kind of, like, why I love to do drag is because I have a strong feminine side, but I am not always willing or just don’t want to give it that space in my day-to-day life. So, I have now the opportunity to give that side of me a huge platform in drag. Um, so I would say I am just more androgynous. You can put me in anything, I feel comfortable in everything. Um, for sexuality, I’m gay, so I’m a gay male. Um, and yeah, I think that’s about it.
Heidi: What pronouns do you use in and out of drag?
Bijou: Um, out of drag, always depends. Like, I am… like, as drag queens, we love to say she or we call, um, ourselves or each other by our drag name, our [inaudible] name. Like, I literally don’t know half of the real names of people that I know from like performances. They call me Bijou, they have me saved in their phone as Bijou. Even my seamstress calls me Bijou, although we, most of the time, see each other when I’m out of drag. Um, so, out of drag, for everyone who does not know me as a drag artist, um, I prefer he. Um, I’m not really… Like, if friends of mine [inaudible], like, I’m fine with [inaudible] better. But if, like, someone who does not know me at all asked what my pronouns are out of drag, I would say he/him, I identify as male, so I would like to be referred to as he/him. In drag, I also don’t really care. Um, you can call me he, or you can say, “He’s next,” because underneath everything I’m still a man, so that makes sense.
But I always say, just out of respect, because, um, my art or the art of a drag artist is to make this vision happen of a feminine individual. Um, so if you say she, or if you refer to us as female, um, it just, kind of, like, is a pat on the back of being like, “You did this good” because the vision works. So, it’s just, kind of, like, it just is a sign of respect and a sign of admiration for what we’re doing if you say she, ’cause that’s the vision we want to create for you and we would like to achieve. But at the same time, I always say, if you’re in drag, if you refer to me as he/she or they, I don’t care, everything’s fine. Out of drag, you can say… well, I prefer he, but if people who know me say she or they, I’m also totally fine with that. I am not very stuck in a certain way I want to be referred as. Just not saying it, and then I’m good. [Laughs]
Heidi: [Laughs] Has drag influenced your sex and gender identities?
Bijou: Um, I would say I feel more at home in my male existence because I now can be… cand be more masculine and have, like, my ma… like I always say, like, it is my man time. Like, that’s what I like to call it. I just have my man time when I’m, like, just in a hoodie and jeans and, like, with messy hair and, like, I’m having man time, like, don’t, don’t bother. And, um, so I feel more comfortable and feel more at home in my male existence, male body because I now have this, like, outlet to give all my femininity and everything in this, um, regard, and just give it a room to grow and, like, present itself.
So, um, I think it just made it more clear for me because there was a time when I was… especially when I was like… I would love to dress up like this… love to wear this, but I was, like, “What does this mean?” Like, I am, maybe, not cisgendered male. And I started doing drag, I realized I loved doing this as an artform. But if you would ask me after an hour of [inaudible], “Would you like to be get out of drag?”, I would be like, “I would love to. I don’t want to look like this anymore…” [laughs].
Heidi: [Laughs]
Bijou: So, I now know, you are cisgendered male, and this is your identity. But you’re, at the same time, more someone who feels comfortable in a feminine appearance and who can use this to create. And so, it just… it just made it more clear for me where… how I identify. Um, and it made me just, in general, feel more comfortable in my masculine being and my feminine being, which had a huge influence on a lot, had a huge influence, um, on my confidence, how I approach people. It had a huge difference… made a huge difference also in terms of, like, being in relationships or even sex, like, that makes a huge difference because you now know who you are and you know where you identi– or how you identify, and it, like, completely changes everything, and it just takes all the doubt away. So, that’s what drag did for me, in that sense.
Heidi: If you could go back in time, what advice would you give your younger self?
Bijou: I think my younger self, I would just literally be like, do the things that you want to do sooner. Stop thinking about everything too much, just do it. ‘Cause it was such a long time, even with drag, I was like… I could’ve started way earlier, but I was like, “Oh, I don’t…” And I would just tell myself, like, just do it. If something in you tells you to do this, and you know, like, by doing it you don’t hurt anybody or you don’t hurt yourself, just do it. Then you don’t have anything, really, to lose. And if it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out, and then you know that. But if it works out, you just have more time.
Because what I know is I will not be able to do drag forever. I don’t see myself being 50 and still doing it, because the way I’m doing it and the way… how I want to look like, and how I want my appearance to be like, and how… what I want to do, the time is limited. And sometimes I think it would have been nice to start it sooner because you would have, maybe, like, three or four more years of doing what you love so much.
So, I would just be like, just do it, just do whatever, and really stop thinking about what other people think. Because, like, the only people that you should care about, and the only opinions you should care about are from people who you care about. If there’s someone out there on the street telling you you look like shit, why should you care? You never asked for their opinion, you don’t necessarily care for that person, their opinion. So, just don’t bother, and don’t think about it. And I think that’s also something I would tell myself is just, be more you at a younger age.
Heidi: I’m curious if and how your social identities have impacted your experience of drag, or how drag has impacted your identities. So, could you share about how one or more of your social identities, like gender, race, class, um, religion, or the interaction of those identities have impacted your experience of drag?
Bijou: Um, I would say, like, I also was very iffy and very, like… when it comes to religion, which comes from the fact that I am also, I think it’s Catholic. Yeah, I think, yeah, like, the Chris– I’m a Chris– I was, um, a Christian, and I was Catholic, which, is, um, a very interesting religion to be in, let’s just say that. I was always very iffy about it. I stepped out of it when I could, so when I knew I’m in a secure work environment, because it’s also, like… if it says you left church, there can be bosses that are gonna be like, “Okay.” Um, it’s, unfortunately, still a thing in Germany, like, everything’s very influenced by religion. Um, so, when I felt secured in my life, I was like, “Okay, I’m gonna get out of this bullshit immediately,” so, I stepped out of church. Um, I don’t have to be part of something that literally wants to see me in hell, why should I?
Um, so I like to make fun of religion now, that happened with drag. I have a number to Personal Jesus by Depeche Mode where I’m, like, the most sexed up, like, pope that you could ever see, [laughing], in, like, lingerie and everything but like a full pope outfit. So, I, kind of, like, like… I like to make fun of certain social constructs in drag.
Um, I think I’m just… I’m just more… or the more I got into putting my being different out there, I now can more understand and feel for people who always had to do that. Um, I have friends who are Black, I have friends who are Muslims. Being Muslim in Germany is, kind of, like, also… I think in America it’s also very iffy, if you say you’re Muslim, they’re like, “Oh my god, terrorist,” whatever, and it’s the same in Germany, I think, because of the huge refugee crisis, um, especially since, like, 2015, Muslims have a very hard time in Germany being accepted just for their religion, which I think is absolute bullshit.
Um, and I can feel more for that, because when I’m in drag or when I am more feminine or I less and less fit into the norm in that moment, I get so much unnecessary… sometimes so much unnecessary hate and… or just weird looks for no reason. But I can always take it off, I can always be like… I can go back to this, and I have it way easier, and they can’t. Like, as a Black person, you cannot just take the Black skin off and be like, “Yeah, now I fit into your norm,” or as a Muslim, as long as you’re not completely changing your religion, which I think you shouldn’t because that’s also part of your identity. Um, they have such a hard time being accepted.
And because I lived a more privileged life for a longer time, fitting more into the norm, I never really thought about that. I knew that racism and, and being anti-Muslim, anti-whatever, that that always existed, but I never really felt it that crazily. Um, but since I gave up a little bit of privilege, because now people know that I do it, or they see me in it, I can feel more for these people. I would never say I understand how it is, because I can’t. As long as you have not walked in their shoes you will never understand how it is. But I have a better feeling of how it must feel like to really be judged heavily for something that is just part of you. And, um, obviously being gay and being openly gay, I already knew a little bit of that. But I think, in Germany, it’s way more accepted to be gay than to be Muslim or to be Black, which, like, is sometimes it’s crazy because you look at other countries, and it’s like the worst thing you can be. So, that’s where we are very privileged in our community.
Um, so I also never thought about it, as a gay man, thought too much about how crazy it can get on a day-to-day basis. But doing drag and presenting more feminine, I now have a better feeling for when someone says, “It’s so hard in our society to be different.” In the past, I was, kind of, like, “Yeah,” but I’m like, “Yes, you’re right.” So, that has a changed a lot in, like, my social identity. I’m just way more I think, sens– is that the right word? Sensible? Or, like, I’m way more, um, thinking about, kind of, my privilege and, kind of, like, how rough life can be for others sometimes.
Heidi: How do you define drag?
Bijou: I think drag is, kind of, like, an art form that is… that cannot and also should not be defined. I think it’s always so iffy when people are like, “Drag has to be like this,” or “That’s the definition of drag,” or… because I think art, in general, is never to be defined. I think like… I think as… I think drag can be defined as an artform that is tearing apart gender constructs. I think that’s the only thing that I would define drag as. I think everything else should be completely open, because it’s so divisive inside the drag community to define it, and then our… because I would probably fall out of the definition as well. So, um, I think drag itself should not be defined, or there should not be a real picture of what drag is, but if I were… if someone were to ask me, “What is drag?” I’m like, “Drag is an artform that tears apart gender constructs that we have in our society to influence the view on our norm society on what gender and gender identity and appearance of certain genders is really like, that it’s not just A and B, but it’s a whole spectrum that is so fluid. And that is what drag is really doing and what drag is about.”
Heidi: You, kind of, answered this in that one, but, um, what do you think is the purpose of drag?
Bijou: I think the purpose of drag is, kind of, like… first of all, I think it’s just to give people like us a stage, or, like, just a platform of presenting themselves. Because before drag, there was not really a platform for artists like us to work. You had these, like, very typical male performers, they did, most of the time, some kind of music or been serious actors or whatever but… and then you have women who were like dancers or whatever, but you never really had a place for people who don’t fit into classic picture of a man or a classic picture of a woman to make something, to make art, um, to make art on a broad spectrum for a lot of people.
Um, so I think it just… I think drag, or the purpose of drag, is to give people who don’t fit into norms a platform to create and be taken seriously as an artist. Um, I think the purpose of drag, right, is to, like, tear apart the gender constructs, tear apart the idea of gender. Even if you look highly feminine, it still is… you could be like, “Yeah but, um, that person or, like, that man dresses up as, um, how a woman is perceived in our society or how a stereotypical woman is looking like.” And I’m like, “That’s true, but a man is able to do that, not just a woman, so that’s also tearing apart your construct.” There’s a whole man underneath this, but that person looks like a woman to you, like a stereotypical woman. So, the picture you have of biological females it not working just for biological females. So, that’s also tearing apart, kind of, like, the constructs we have.
And I think, also like the purpose of drag is to… also for, for… actually for some trans individuals, to find out that they are trans. I will always say, and this is so important, to keep being trans and being a drag queen completely apart, because it’s not the same thing. A drag queen is someone who does it for art purposes or for, like, just living out, kind of, like, ideas and, um, and a certain part of their identity that they have, and a trans person is completely different. And… but some trans individuals, and we seen it on Drag Race as well, we have so many, um, queens who are now trans women. I found, through drag, that they’re not only feeling comfortable as a woman in drag, but they wanna feel like that all the time. So, it can also be… drag can be a way of really finding out who you are in a safe and almost playful way.
Heidi: Do you think drag is sexual?
Bijou: Can be. Obviously, we are highly fetishized, um, and there are a lot of people who have, like, a huge fetish for drag artists, um, which, I mean, you do you. [Laughs] If that’s your thing, you go girl. Um, I know that there are a lot of drag queens who are into this as well, who, kind of, like, get off on that. I think it will always be a little bit sexual, um, but I think everything is, kind of, sexual. I think, like, no matter what, I think, like, even ice skating is somewhat sexual, like, you have a man in tight tights and a tight shirt with like… I mean everything can be sexualized, and everything is sexualized, unfortunately, nowadays, which… where I’m like, “Y’all need to chill for a second.”
Heidi: [Laughs]
Bijou: Um, but, obviously, like, like, especially how certain drag queens are dressing and presenting themselves as these crazy high feminine personalities with huge tits, huge ass, like, dresses that are this short, it, it will be sexual, in a sense. But I would never say that drag comes from or is for just sexual purposes.
Heidi: How do you feel about RuPaul’s Drag Race?
Bijou: I like it for, um… I like it for entertainment purposes. I watched it religiously, I still do, um, mainly to, like, get to know other drag queens, get to know, like, how drag is looking like in certain cities or from wherever you are. I think now that we have, like, Drag Race Canada and UK and America and Thailand, and it will be in Australia soon, and we have it in the Netherlands, and it will be in Spain, like, I think it will be just so interesting to get to know different kind of drags from over the world.
I think what’s very important, especially from the view of a drag artist, is you cannot look at Drag Race and think that this is what drag is about, or that this is what drag is. It’s a reality TV competition. We’re not always just screaming at each other being like, “You look like shit! No, you look like shit!” And I think that we still don’t have bioqueens, so women who do drag, um, that, open, open, like, trans personalities still have such a hard time getting on it. I think it’s… it is, kind of… it is too exclusive, in a way, and RuPaul is, kind of, like, too stuck in a certain picture that he has in drag, or has for drag.
Um, I think it also kind of… it’s been very great… what definitely has to be said is, like, drag was not how it was before RuPaul’s Drag Race. It was an absolute, like, underdog situation. No one cared for it, it was too weird, it was not in the mainstream. It did so much for us drag artists that this show exists, and that it gave drag queens the platform to show to the world what we do is great, we are here, and we are slaying. And that happened, for sure. Um, but it can also be a little bit destructive, in the sense of, like, how drag is presented, and that drag race itself is sometimes overly sexual for no reason, which then again makes people think that we are only doing this for sexual purposes.
Um, so it think it’s a curse and a blessing to have this show and, um, I still watch it because it’s entertaining, but I also know that when I see certain things, okay, this is far from reality. Um, but at the same time, I’m like, “Oh my god, I just hope other people will not think that this is like how everything is.” Um, I hope it continues, but I’m always someone… I said it, and I think, I hope it will happen soon, is that RuPaul is stepping down, and gives someone younger with a more diverse view on drag the opportunity to change this institution as [inaudible] it’s an institution now, you can say, you know, it’s like the… it’s like the Harvard or Yale of drag, like everyone wants to get there to, like, get, get whatever out of it. And, um, I think just someone comes across, or comes around, and is gonna be like, “Okay, now we’re gonna make it more diverse.”
Heidi: If you could change one thing about drag, the drag scene or the drag community, what would it be?
Bijou: I would say that I would love to change, um, that every drag queen, no matter what kind of style or drag artist, whatever, what kind of style they’re doing, that they are accepting other styles of it as well, or as much as their own. Um, I hope, for what we are doing inside the drag community, that it just will be getting more… that we will be more, like, okay, everything is great, like, every style of drag is great, like, everything has the same value. And then, what I would love for the drag community to change on the outside perspective is that we get even taken more seriously as artists, and that people will not always question what we do, and just take it and then be like, it’s just art. That’s, that’s it. And not think about it too much in the sense of, like, why is that person…? What is that? That it’s just taken seriously as art and is put on the same level as art, in the sense of that we don’t have to always explain and almost defend why we’re doing it.
Heidi: What do you think are misconceptions that people have about drag?
Bijou: That we’re… that all… every drag queen is trans, um, that every drag queen wants to be a women, um, that we are perverted or pedophiles or whatever, that we are, um… that we are only in drag because we hate our male existence so much or the person that we are as male. Um, there are so many misconceptions about drag, I feel like more misconceptions than, like, real, actual conceptions of what drag is. Um, I think the biggest misconception is that we’re trans, and I’m saying it’s the biggest because it’s the most hurtful for the trans community in the sense of them not being taken seriously as an actual person with a very certain and clear gender identity. They’re like, “I am female,” or like a transwoman is, “I am female, and I’m female always, I have always been female, and I’m putting on the female, and I can’t take it off. I am this person.” And then some people think that… like, I even, like, know that this happened because I was once part of a situation where a trans person was asked that, it was like, “Oh, um, but, like, um, but, like, in the evening you can take this off,” or like… and then I was just like, “What’s going on? No.” I think it’s just very hurtful sometimes for the trans community, like… that’s why I am always making sure when I tell someone, um, that I’m doing drag, I’m like, “I am not trans, and I don’t want you to put this on the same level. That is just not fair.” Um, so I think that’s the biggest misconception because it has a huge negative effect on a drag queen, but also on the trans communities in general.
Um, and I think the next misconception is, we’re not perverted, we’re not doing this just for sex, we’re not doing it because we’re getting off on it. There are cross dressers that have a kink for this, or that do it out of a fetish, but a drag queen, a professional working drag queen is not doing this for anything sexual, for getting off on it or whatever. We’re not trying to, um, lure straight men into having sex with us because we look like women. Um, we’re not dangerous, in a sense, because I think drag queens are sometimes even seen as dangerous for society or dangerous for certain people, for kids, or for straight men or whatever, which is also just a huge… I’m just a man in a wig making art, for god’s sake, like, that’s the only thing I am. Like, I don’t have, like, a master plan in mind to take over the world or anything, I’m just doing me and doing art, and just see it as that and that’s it. And I think that’s, like, huge misconceptions, but there are so many, um, that are still going around, also depending on, kind of, like, where, in which country you’re in and how much people got in touch with drag.
Heidi: What do you think would help change those misconceptions?
Bijou: I think if people would be more open for it, for drag. Like, for, not doing it but just being around it, seeing it, watching it, um, learning about it, um, talking to drag artists. I see it every time when I’m in drag at, um, Chris—like, at our pride parade, and I talk to people at, um… borders of the street watching the parade, and, like, they’ve never been in touch with it, they’re seeing it sometimes even for the first time. And they’re talking with you, you can see that, like, their whole perception changes of what I’m doing in, like, a two-minute conversation. And I think if people would be more open, especially people who are so much in this… our society norm, if they would be, more like, “Okay, I’m gonna get out of my norm, I’m gonna look past, kind of, like, the edge of where I feel comfortable,” they can learn so much more about our society and about life and about different people that are on this planet.
And I think, um, if peo– if other people be more open to just get to know us… you don’t have to like us. You don’t have to, like, be a fan and [inaudible] afterwards, but if you just listened, and, kind of, know what’s going on, this will already change a lot of misconceptions, because even if you’re like, “I’m not a fan of…”, like, if you’re in a conversation with someone, and someone talks about cert—or, like, is saying something that’s part of a misconception, you can be like, “I may not be a fan of it, but I know what you’re saying is bullshit,” and that would help.
And, um, I’m seeing that this is happening for sure. I’m… I really am. I see it on my Instagram when someone is, like, leaving a nasty comment, like, how many people, like, step in or are like, “Yeah, that’s bullshit, like, shut up, go away.” And that would have not happened a couple of years ago. People would have been like, “Yeah, that’s not nice but I’m not gonna say anything.” And people feel more comfortable supporting us now, and I think there’s a change happening, and I think misconceptions get less, or, like, um, they’re not as widespread anymore. Um, but I think if more people would be open for it and if more drag artists would be open for conversation as well… because I see a lot of people in our community that they are not really willing to get into conversations where they have to be a little bit more vulnerable. Because it will be a vulnerable conversation talking about why you do certain things, or why you don’t fit the norm.
And I know that there a lot of, um, people out of the drag community or even like the LGBT community who are not… don’t feel comfortable getting that vulnerable, but then they also have to accept that they cannot be part of progress. Because the only people who can really show other people who we are are ourselves. We are the only ones who can do it. So, if you don’t wanna go out into the world, into the norm, and show yourself and show… represent your community, then you can’t expect change to happen quicker.
Heidi: If you chose one thing you want people to know or learn about drag, what would it be?
Bijou: That it’s fun, I think that it’s fun. I think… at the end of the day, like, I think it’s just fun to look at, it’s fun to do, it’s fun to be around drag queens, because most of the time in drag we’re our most, like, authentic selves, and, like, so… we, most of the time, are exuding so much confidence and fun. And I think, if there’s anything you take away from drag is… anything positive, if you don’t wanna get into politics, or I don’t know, tearing down patriarchy or whatever, if you just wanna get into something very on the surface of drag, it’s fun.
And I think, I know that there are people who come to drag performances and they’re like, “I don’t wanna even talk about, like, what you mean for society or for politics or whatever, but I just wanna be here because you’re so damn entertaining and it’s so much fun to be around you.” And that’s it. I think if there’s one thing… if there’s one thing that I can, like, explain to someone on drag where they don’t have to think about a lot afterwards is, it’s just fun. It’s highly entertaining for both sides. So, I think that’s what I would love people to know is, like, no matter what you think about it, just come and watch, and you will be entertained.
Heidi: So, that was, um, the last question. Thank you so much. This has been great.
Bijou: Yeah, thank you, thank you for, for even, like, doing, um, like, this whole project. It’s always great when people, like, take their time to, like, make something and really… because as I said, like, we don’t sometimes have the opportunity to, like, really present ourselves and, like, explain to people. So, by people like you making these kind of projects, it’s even more… it’s another opportunity for more people to just get to know us and get to know what we do and get to know the people behind it. So, I can also, like, say thank you, thanks for… in the name of, like, the whole community, I can say, that, like, you are also part of progress for us.
Heidi: Well, thank you, I appreciate your time so much. And, um, enjoy the rest of your day.
Bijou: Thank you, you as well.
Heidi: Okay. Bye-bye.